“Should I let them hit rock bottom?” Creating change using ITC (with Molly Sinclair)
About the Episode
Feeling torn between “tough love” and showing support? What if the answer is not choosing between helping or detaching, but finding a balance?
In this episode, Molly Sinclair, takes us through her journey of navigating her mom’s, her brother’s, and her own addiction with empathy and boundaries. Molly explains evidence-based tools like the Invitation to Change approach, whether you should let someone hit “rock-bottom” and other insights to help you start the new year with clarity and compassion.
Guest: Molly Sinclair, Family Peer Recovery Specialist at Thrive
Molly is the Lead Family Peer Recovery Specialist for Thrive! Family Recovery Resources, where she also co-leads a sibling support group. Molly helps members learn about and practice the evidence-based approach, Invitation to Change (ITC), in their own lives. Inspired by and a member of the recovery community in both places, Molly is grateful to have found Thrive! where she can work toward a cause close to her heart.
This episode will help you:
Decide whether Al-Anon/Nar-Anon, CRAFT, or the Invitation to Change is right for you
Understand how to support a loved one through their addiction or recovery
Identify what’s a true emergency, and how to respond (not react) to
Watch Now
Episode Links
🎙 MOLLY SINCLAIR
About: https://www.thrivefrr.org/our-team
📘 BOOK, “THE BEYOND ADDICTION WORKBOOK FOR FAMILY AND FRIENDS”
Check it out: https://beyondaddictionworkbook.com/
Resources
💬 JOIN OUR SIBLING-FOCUSED COMMUNITY
Join our Facebook group, Siblings For Love of Recovery for:
Connect with other siblings
Share your own story in a safe space
Support for navigating the journey
🤳 CONNECT WITH FOR LOVE OF RECOVERY
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/forloveofrecovery
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61561542956095
-
[00:00:00] Molly: Because if you love someone with a substance use problem, you may have been told to detach with love or to practice tough love. And if you haven't followed this advice, you may have been told that you're codependent. You may be confused about your role and may even believe that being caring towards your loved one is somehow causing the problem, but the research evidence is clear.
[00:00:21] Molly: You can help a loved one struggling with substances by actively supporting them.
[00:00:25] Dominique: Welcome to FLOR For Love and Recovery, where I'm your host, Dominique Dajer. Sibling relationships can be so unique, but they can become more complex when there's drug or alcohol use involved. If you find yourself questioning how to help, you're not alone.
[00:00:56] Dominique: Every month we bring together stories that empower you to better navigate your sibling's addiction, offer a sense of connection, and provide fresh perspectives on understanding substance use and how to protect your peace. Join me on this journey in restoring hope and healing.
[00:01:10]
[00:01:10] Dominique: As we step into the new year, many of us find ourselves reflecting on growth, transformation, and the changes we want to make, especially when it comes to our relationships. But when a sibling or a family member is struggling with addiction, navigating the maze of resources and support systems often raises more questions than answers, leaving us unsure of the right approach that we should take.
[00:01:41] Dominique: In today's episode, we're joined by Molly Sinclair, who is on her own journey of recovery from alcohol addiction. She is now using her experiences to better understand her family's struggle with addiction while continuing to support them. As a Family Peer Recovery Specialist at Thrive. Molly leads a sibling focused support group that empowers members through the evidence based invitation to change approach.
[00:02:03] Dominique: Today, she'll share her story, the tools and resources that have helped her and how she's using her insights to make a difference in her family and her community. Molly, thank you so much for being on the show today. We're so grateful to have you.
[00:02:16] Molly: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
[00:02:18] Dominique: Of course. I really want to take the beginning of this episode to Give you the floor and ask you to share a little bit about your own journey with alcohol addiction, what your recovery process looked like, and some of the tools and communities that have helped you.
[00:02:34] Molly: Sure. My struggle with alcohol started from the very first time I ever took a drink, when I was maybe 15. When I took a drink, I had a feeling that I want to feel this all the time. This is something that I don't ever want to let go of. My relationship with alcohol was not really problematic until I was a young adult.
[00:03:03] Molly: I would drink. As I had the chance and I would always overindulge, but it wasn't chronic. So one thing I'll say is I'm a gay person and growing up in Tennessee, I had a lot of internalized homophobia and self hatred that I think contributed to My need for escape, so to speak. I like to say that I come from a legacy of alcoholism.
[00:03:30] Molly: Both of my parents have struggled. Two uncles, two of my grandparents, my brother and a cousin have all struggled with substance use. My dad actually ran an alcohol and drug treatment center in Tennessee. So I was very familiar with treatment and 12 step communities and the traditional sort of pathways to recovery.
[00:03:56] Molly: My grandfather, uh, established a lot of AA meetings in the South in the 50s and 60s. And he would take my dad to these meetings. My dad would go to these AA meetings, sometimes in people's houses, sometimes in churches, wherever. And it would be a bunch of old men sitting around, smoking cigarettes, drinking coffee, and laughing and having a great time.
[00:04:21] Molly: My dad thought that was awesome. And he got to probably the first grade and it was like career day and the teacher goes around the room and they're like, you know, Susie, what do you want to be? And she's like, I want to be a nurse, you know, and they get to Frank and they're like, Frank, what do you want to be?
[00:04:42] Molly: I want to be a firefighter. Well, they get to my dad, like, Jimmy, what do you want to be? He goes, I want to be an alcoholic. So that gives you an idea of the legacy of alcoholism that I come from. So I, I knew that there was a potential that I could have a problem with alcohol. Like I always knew, I really recognized that I needed help.
[00:05:06] Molly: So I went to an outpatient treatment program. I had gotten married by this point. We had tried to start our family. My wife was pregnant, and we lost a baby at 20 weeks. And I think my drinking really accelerated after that. I ended up going into an outpatient program in 2014. I did not stay sober. I struggled until 2017.
[00:05:29] Molly: I went to an inpatient program, and I had all these preconceived notions of what I 12 step communities were and what that process looked like and I didn't want it because both of my parents had struggled and didn't seem to be authentically demonstrating real recovery or what I thought that would be.
[00:05:52] Molly: As time went on, I realized that that's where the people were, and that's where I found my recovery, was with the people. Not necessarily the steps. I've been in recovery since 2017. I've had some returns to use in that time, but I personally don't believe in this idea that you have to start over when you have a return to use.
[00:06:18] Molly: I think that's counterproductive for a lot of people. This idea of going to a meeting and raising your hand saying, I have one day, because what is true is that maybe you had a return to use, but that doesn't negate all of the time that you've spent in recovery up till then. There's certainly a lot of things to learn, both from a return to use and, and things that you've learned before that.
[00:06:45] Molly: It's better for me to recognize that I'm in a process of recovery.
[00:06:50] Dominique: It's definitely. It's what it sounds like. It's more about it's a journey, not a destination
[00:06:55] Molly: in terms of my recovery and what has been meaningful to me and what has been helpful to me. It was really connecting with other people. That have the same struggles.
[00:07:07] Dominique: So there's a community and connection rather than feeling isolated or all alone in
[00:07:11] Molly: the shamed and yeah, all of it that comes with that.
[00:07:15] Dominique: Yeah. So you mentioned earlier that your brother is one person that has struggled with use as well. Could you tell me a little bit about what your relationship has been like?
[00:07:27] Molly: So my brother and I, we used to drink together and that was when we really sort of solidified a sense of sibling love. We connected during times of alcohol use. That is the truth. At some point I realized that it was harmful for me and it really wasn't. A way to deepen those connections. Like it was pretty surface level.
[00:07:52] Molly: Um, so I sought out recovery before my brother did. So I started working at Thrive Family Recovery Resources in January of 2023. I think my brother. Started to engage in what we call change talk sometime in 2023 or early 2024. And he was really ambivalent about the idea of abstinence, but I utilized a lot of the skills that I've learned along the way from the invitation to change process.
[00:08:23] Molly: I did a lot of asking open ended questions and I did a lot of listening too. He sought out treatment in 2024. But through that process. Our relationship has gotten so much deeper and richer because we talk about things that are real and that matter. So one thing that I think is important about the sibling relationship is that we both came from the same set of trauma, same upbringing, the same environmental triggers.
[00:08:55] Molly: So we both had alcoholic parents that weren't really willing to engage in talking about feelings.
[00:09:06] Dominique: I think what I've always said about my relation with my brother too is like, similarly but also comparatively to yours, is we grew up in the same house with the same parents, in the same neighborhood, afforded more or less the same opportunities.
[00:09:19] Dominique: Yeah, we had very different experiences because we had very different versions of our parents, I think.
[00:09:24] Molly: The environmental factor, I think, can't be overstated when it comes to siblings and substance use. I'm able to access a whole lot more compassion for my brother and his substance use than I could for my parents, you know, because we came from that same background.
[00:09:41] Molly: I'll add that my mom struggled with alcohol and she had been sober until I was about maybe 15. Because my dad ran this large alcohol and drug treatment facility, we needed to keep that a secret. It was really important to cover that up. And there was this operation between my dad and I to keep everybody safe.
[00:10:08] Molly: And one part of that operation was to try to keep Spencer, my brother, safe. I really tried to shield my brother from some of the effects of alcoholism, and I realized that I didn't do a very good job. That involved a lot of pretending like everything was okay, covering up, sending Spencer to my sister's house, not telling her what was going on.
[00:10:32] Molly: So there was just a lot of deception and hiding. I mean, I don't like the word dysfunctional, but we were adapting to our environment in the best way we knew how. It all comes out in the end. It's better to just talk about what's going on, be honest about it, and be compassionate about what's happening, both with yourself and with others, so.
[00:10:57] Dominique: I think shame definitely gets the best of a lot of people when there's drug or alcohol use involved. I think a lot of people have been conditioned to think, whatever happens in the family stays in the family, you know, you don't air out your dirty laundry. And I think that's something that is profound across cultures and across the world.
[00:11:15] Dominique: Yeah,
[00:11:17] Molly: and it's important to acknowledge that it causes harm.
[00:11:21] Dominique: Absolutely. Sometimes that harm can manifest emotionally, mentally, sometimes physically. So I think that can show up in a lot of different ways depending on, you know, the situation at hand. You mentioned playing this buffer role, trying to protect your brother Spencer from your mom's alcohol use.
[00:11:38] Dominique: What are some of the boundaries that you started to develop and what's some of the awareness that you started to have around maybe this isn't the right thing to do or maybe is this something that I should be doing?
[00:11:49] Molly: Really through my relationship with my spouse helped me recognize this is not normal.
[00:11:55] Molly: There was a time I think when my mom had been on a bench for days and was at my parents house. My dad was out of town. And my mom was in bed and had been in the same position for so long that she had lost feeling and part of her body had driven over to my parents house. And my spouse was with me and my mom was screaming at me not to call the paramedics.
[00:12:23] Molly: And I tell Anne the situation, and it became apparent I really needed to call the paramedics. I said, Mom, I'm going to go outside, I'm going to go home, and I'm going to call you. If you don't answer the phone, I'm going to call the paramedics. She was like, okay, sure. So, I go out to the car, I call her at that point.
[00:12:47] Molly: She doesn't answer the phone, so I call the paramedics. She ended up in the hospital for like months after this. helped me understand that my thinking is not the best thinking in this situation. Like I need to access some other information outside of my own experience to help inform my decisions. So that's one piece of information that I gained that day.
[00:13:15] Molly: But the other thing that I did was I said what I was going to do and then I followed through. It was the first time I had an experience of saying if this happens then I will do Which was, like, my first real experience in drawing, like, a boundary, really. I mean, that's really what that was, like, explaining, When you do X, I will do Y.
[00:13:40] Molly: And boundaries are for really an act of self compassion. Like, I, trust my own instincts enough and myself enough to know that like this is not okay and I'm gonna hold to what I'm saying right now. And it just, it took me a long time to get to a place where I could genuinely say what I mean and mean what I say.
[00:14:04] Dominique: And the fact that you became aware that maybe you didn't have All the tools or a background or information that you needed in that moment. So you sought out support from your partner.
[00:14:13] Molly: I could not do it by myself. I needed somebody behind me to say, you're right. What you're doing is okay. You're not a bad person.
[00:14:23] Molly: What your mom is telling you is not true. I needed some additional support. Once I embraced the fact that like other people can help me In a given situation. I just was so reliant on my own reason and willpower and was unwilling to let in other people because I just thought they didn't get it. They couldn't understand.
[00:14:49] Molly: And once I opened myself up to realizing that other people have things shifted, and that sounds so basic, but it really was an opening up process of letting additional information in.
[00:14:59] Dominique: When you're so close to that person or that situation, it's so hard to just see unbiased perspective. Like this has been your parent for how many years and you know, this person probably better than anyone else.
[00:15:14] Dominique: But because of that, sometimes we need that third party to come in and be like, hey, Molly, like this isn't okay. Or Dominique, you shouldn't be responsible for this thing.
[00:15:23] Molly: Seeking counsel. It gives time to let others weigh in on the situation. A more well rounded approach or response than just what you can come up with in your own brain at the time when you're feeling activated.
[00:15:37] Molly: And, um, neurotic. So, Yeah.
[00:15:40] Dominique: Cause usually during those times of stress, there's like three feelings. It's probably like some kind of fear, some kind of maybe anger and maybe a state of shock or uncertainty. So I think, you know, taking that pause can help alleviate some of those feelings and really bring back some of that logical thinking that might go out the window when you're in that state.
[00:16:02] Dominique: Just having that support system can be so powerful and navigating those, you know, complicated situations and dynamics.
[00:16:11] Molly: One of the biggest things that has helped me in my recovery is just to take stock of like, What is actually urgent and what's not because when it came to my mom's addiction I felt like everything was on fire all the time And I was just trying to put out the little fires where I could and it seemed like everything was an emergency I don't want to discount the fact that people experience life threatening situations when it comes to substance use.
[00:16:40] Molly: But frequently, I think what we do is we think everything is emergent and we're reactive as opposed to responsive. When I learned to take a breath and a pause, my ability to respond in a skillful way went up exponentially.
[00:16:58] Dominique: Yeah, absolutely. And I think sometimes taking that pause affords us the opportunity to say, Am I the best person to actually respond to those?
[00:17:07] Dominique: Or is it someone else's responsibility to do this? Or is there someone else who can help me respond in a way that I think might best fit the situation?
[00:17:15] Molly: Being able to have control over my own nervous system and be able to respond to things in a skillful way as opposed to just being reactive has been tremendously helpful.
[00:17:30] Molly: There are a lot of tools that I employee in that effort. I do a lot of breathing. I think tapping can be helpful. It's a little bit like acupressure. There are different places where you can tap, like on your chin or on your collarbone or underneath your eyes. And it can be awkward to do it in public. But if you can find a quiet space to yourself, it can be a really grounding technique to calm your nervous system.
[00:18:00] Molly: So being able to have control over my own nervous system and be able to respond to things in a skillful way as opposed to just being reactive has been tremendously helpful.
[00:18:15] Dominique: There are so many different opinions and approaches to working on one's own healing. and how they're engaging with someone who's struggling with drug or alcohol use.
[00:18:25] Dominique: For someone who's just starting off, how can someone decide whether Al Anon, Naranon, Facebook groups, Kraft, Invitation to Change, how all these different approaches can work and where they should start when they're looking to support themselves and maybe a loved one who's struggling with addiction?
[00:18:44] Molly: My advice would be for people to try everything and see what resonates with them.
[00:18:52] Molly: At the end of the day, it's about being in touch with our values. Sometimes Al Anon is the best way for someone to be in alignment with their values. Go to an Al Anon meeting, try a Thrive meeting, try a Invitation to Change meeting and see what speaks to you because they all have There are similar things to offer, but there are different approaches.
[00:19:19] Molly: There are common themes that run through all of them. One of those is self care, because we need to put on our own oxygen mask before we help another person. There are times when Al Anon spoke to me, and I grew, and I learned, and then it didn't. And something else spoke to me. So I think it kind of depends on space and time and where you are in the healing process as to what will be most helpful for you.
[00:19:48] Molly: When
[00:19:49] Dominique: do you think it's fair to say that someone should commit to just one of these approaches or programs, or do you think it's fair to say that there can be a blend of all these different ideologies and you pulling from. Whatever might make sense for you in that moment or situation.
[00:20:05] Molly: That's certainly been my experience.
[00:20:07] Molly: The idea of take what you want and leave the rest has been a part of my process. So I would say sticking to one approach is not necessary and, and I wouldn't, I don't think it's advisable. I think that all of these, approaches have wisdom to offer. And the more wisdom we have, the more information we have, the better equipped we are to navigate life.
[00:20:33] Molly: The Invitation to Change comes from a workbook that is based on a book called Beyond Addiction. It's about creating conditions for change. that help sustain change in the long run and help the person struggling and the person that wants to support the struggling person. That starts by recognizing that behaviors make sense and that recovery is about addition as opposed to subtraction.
[00:21:02] Molly: So we want to compete with the addiction, so to speak. We want to add things into our life that can replace the harmful substance use. When you recognize that there's a reason behind someone's substance use, It kind of demystifies the addiction in the sense that substances are only harmful. And then we look for ways to add helpful things to our life.
[00:21:30] Molly: In my own recovery, I seek wellness, not relief. That means for me, I'm looking for things to add to my life that aren't just a quick fix. to get me an effect or not just a way to change the way that I feel in the moment. Other features of the invitation to change process involve self compassion and self care, recognizing what your why is in terms of helping your person.
[00:22:01] Molly: There's a lot about positive reward and allowing natural consequences to happen. And there's a component of motivational interviewing, so asking open ended questions to help people really come to their own answers as to how they want to change, as opposed to dictating for them how you think they should change.
[00:22:23] Molly: So it's a more sustainable way of helping someone change.
[00:22:27] Dominique: So one of the things you mentioned is about addition, not subtraction. For the person who's looking to support their sibling or their other family member who might be struggling, what are some things that you think that they can actively add in to that relationship?
[00:22:43] Molly: It depends on the person. So for some people it might be, hey, let's go to a movie and then let's go out for coffee afterwards. Talk about the movie or talk about our life, but you know, do it without substances. For some people it might be, let's go play some basketball or let's go shoot some pool. There are a million different ways that you can engage in positive behaviors with your loved one that will help them add some things to their toolbox as far as wellness activities versus relief activities.
[00:23:17] Dominique: So it's really about prioritizing or making space for that relationship and maintaining some form of Connection wherever possible rather than let's say distancing oneself or cutting off ties unless that's for your best interest when it comes to your physical safety. This is where some listeners might be feeling confused because there are some approaches that actually encourage removing oneself versus engaging with that person who's struggling with their drug or alcohol use.
[00:23:49] Dominique: For someone who might be feeling conflicted about quote unquote if this is the right or wrong thing to do, what would you say to them about being open to engaging with the invitation to change approach and continuing some kind of healthy relationship, if possible,
[00:24:05] Molly: as opposed to Summarizing it myself, I'm going to read directly from the Invitational Change Approach because I think it summarizes it so well.
[00:24:16] Molly: It talks about how being connected to your loved one has a better chance of helping them than detaching. So, in the introduction, it says, if you love someone with a substance use problem, you may have been told to detach with love or to practice tough love. And if you haven't followed this advice, you may have been told that you're codependent.
[00:24:37] Molly: You may be confused about your role and may even believe that being caring towards your loved one is somehow causing the problem. But the research evidence is clear. You can help a loved one struggling with substances by actively supporting them. In fact, family influence is an important reason for seeking treatment for substance problems.
[00:25:00] Molly: So there's a lot of research to that. Family involvement And staying connected to your family member is a much better way to promote change than to detach. I was certainly given that messaging that I needed to detach from my mom, and it didn't feel natural. It didn't feel right. The lonelier and more isolated my mom gets, the sicker she's gonna get.
[00:25:29] Molly: Not the other way around. She's not gonna all of a sudden feel oh, I want to get better because now all I'm all alone Like she's just gonna get worse, you know,
[00:25:39] Dominique: there are some ideologies. We'll say well, maybe she just hasn't hit in her rock bottom yet Right, and we need to let them hit it before they're able to seek out any kind of treatment or support or whatever level of care They might need what is the message that it supports when it comes to letting someone hit their rock bottom versus You actively supporting them and initiating some of that change.
[00:26:02] Molly: I, I know that the idea of rock bottom can be devastating for some people because rock bottom can mean death for a lot of people. If we're in addiction, we're on a, an elevator. It's always going down. You can get off on any level so you don't have to go to the basement. Through support and compassion and love, you might decide that the third floor is a better place to get off than the basement.
[00:26:30] Molly: You might recognize there are things that I still value and appreciate in my life, and I want to keep those things. And I don't mean that that's the case for everybody. I mean, people find different reasons for seeking recovery. As many different reasons for seeking recovery as there are people that have sought recovery.
[00:26:53] Molly: But I think through compassion and connection, we can encourage people to get off that elevator sooner. As opposed to letting them either die or experience irreversible consequences.
[00:27:06] Dominique: Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. One of the terms that I've heard a lot and I definitely gravitate toward is like raising their bottom, which is like similar to your analogy of letting them get off at whichever floor they want to, rather than getting to the basement.
[00:27:20] Dominique: So I think about like what kinds of relationships we're building, so that way we can help them get off that elevator, or how we. Use their actions or communication to raise their bottom and making sure that they don't hit their lowest point, whatever that might be, and thinking about actionable ways to create that change.
[00:27:39] Dominique: So you mentioned the invitation to change approach really emphasizes compassion and empathy. How does that mindset help the person in recovery and the family members, but especially siblings? Are there any specific actions that siblings can do to play an active role in the Invitation to Change approach?
[00:28:01] Molly: Sure. And that's a hard question because there are so many things that you can do. The most prevalent messaging we hear is that you have to admit that you're helpless. There's nothing you can do. They just have to hit rock bottom. One way that you can help your person is to regulate your own nervous system.
[00:28:20] Molly: So you're responding skillfully as opposed to reacting to situations because when we are just reactive, a lot of things come out sideways and we exhibit what we call these make it stop reactions. And they're not helpful. Another thing we can do is to really get in touch with our own values and to figure out your why.
[00:28:42] Molly: Why do I feel compelled to help my sibling? Is it because I value connection and compassion and empathy, or is it something else? Another thing we can do is to ask open ended questions of our loved one. Questions like, what would you like to be different? You know, what kind of changes would Would you like to make?
[00:29:06] Molly: What are some things that you get out of substance use? You know, getting to the why, and the behaviors make sense. What might happen if you made a change? You know, why is it important that you do make a change? So helping lead someone to their own answers, as opposed to just giving them a solution that you think is right for them.
[00:29:26] Molly: Helping them come up with their own solution. There's a lot of talk about positive reinforcement, but I feel like that is more difficult for siblings, just because we're not in this hierarchical relationship where it's like a parent and child, or Even a spousal relationship is different. Like you're more on a level, like you said earlier, like we're more on a level playing field.
[00:29:47] Molly: We're on, we've come from the same experience. And so the idea of positive reinforcement, I certainly think there's room for that, but it's a little different in the sibling context.
[00:29:56] Dominique: For siblings, I think positive reinforcement could really come in like quality time for me and my brother. One of the things that I've been trying to do is like an arts and crafts project.
[00:30:06] Dominique: While he was in rehab at one point, he really enjoyed some of the activities that they had for him. And he got to engage in more of his creative side that I don't think he's ever really tapped into. And one of the things that I enjoy doing is woodwork finishing. So we picked up a little nightstand for him at the local thrift shop, and we're working on sanding that down and painting it.
[00:30:29] Dominique: And we don't even really talk during the process, but I think doing it together, having this kind of shared experience. I think has shown him, oh, these are things that I can actually do on my own, or these are things that I can do with my sister, or. Is there new skills that I actually have that I didn't know that I could have tapped into?
[00:30:51] Dominique: So I think that positive reinforcement is showing him another side that's been afforded to him because of his recovery process.
[00:30:59] Molly: There's this idea when we're dealing with our loved one that's in recovery of leaning in when they're engaged in recovery and leaning out when they're not. That looks different for everybody, but it's a helpful visual when you think about leaning in, when you see positive behaviors that you want to encourage, and then leaning out, whether it's taking a step back or not spending as much time, however that might look.
[00:31:27] Dominique: So we talked a little bit about how compassion and empathy are really at the core of the Invitation to Change approach and how they might differ from the 12 step work or craft processes that For someone who's hearing about all these things for the first time, or might have heard about them, but is unfamiliar with how they work, where would you recommend starting, and why?
[00:31:50] Molly: I think it depends on your community. As I've experienced in my own recovery, finding where the actual people are, regardless of what the messaging is, was actually more important than what the message was. So just finding community. Beyond finding community, I think finding what messaging resonates with you obviously is important.
[00:32:19] Molly: Once you've sort of identified your values, you can look at these different approaches and see what seems to support my values and how I want to show up in my relationship with my loved one. And those different programs will speak to different people in different ways.
[00:32:38] Dominique: Yeah, I think one of the things that I've heard from you is There's no one size fits all approach when it comes to navigating your sibling's addiction or really any other family member's addiction.
[00:32:50] Dominique: Getting involved in all these different approaches, testing them, trying out what works for you, what's really resonating with your values, it's gonna be important. There's no black and white manual for any of this stuff. So I think really just embracing the change and being open to different experiences.
[00:33:08] Dominique: is really the crux of what you've shared.
[00:33:10] Molly: And I will say that I do recommend highly that people read Beyond Addiction. I think it's an incredibly helpful text that helps frame the issue for people in a way that makes sense and helps them understand their loved one's substance use from a different angle.
[00:33:30] Molly: And I think that it would be helpful for anyone that has a loved one struggling with substance use.
[00:33:35] Dominique: Thank you. I really appreciate that. I know our listeners probably will too. Reflecting on your relationship with Spencer, sibling relationships can be super complicated. What does it mean to you to be a supportive sibling?
[00:33:47] Dominique: To someone who may be an active addiction or in recovery.
[00:33:52] Molly: My brother sent me a text earlier today that was really sweet and meaningful to me. And he said, as for your sobriety and the way you've helped me with mine. I think you've been incredibly supportive and available to me without ever being prescriptive or pushy.
[00:34:11] Molly: You've shared your own experience and thought, but always made clear that your struggles and pitfalls might not be mine, and that you are also just doing your best to figure it out as you go. I think hearing you sort of interrogate your own thoughts and motivations has been a helpful way in for me, because I'm free to take it or leave it, and often I'm just naturally inclined to make it about me and compare my own process.
[00:34:35] Molly: He says it's also tricky because I haven't come to a clear decision yet as to the net cost or benefit of eliminating all substances. So Spencer decided while he was in treatment that he'd give it a year and then re evaluate. And he says, I have a really hard time with AA, the steps, the counting sober dime, sober birthdays, the meetings, the higher power, the sense of pride and seniority that comes from counting sober time, and the shame of resetting the clock.
[00:35:00] Molly: I don't like any of it, and I appreciate that you're patient and understanding of that, and always make it clear that regardless of what I choose, that she'll be there for me as a sibling no matter what. Articulating what has been helpful for me really helps me in my own recovery. Like when you learn something from a teacher and then you have to explain it to somebody else that like really reinforces the idea.
[00:35:25] Dominique: I love that. It sounds like a really heartwarming and um, I think hopeful thing to hear that your relationship has come as far as it has. You guys are both in a place where You're in recovery right now, and that's something that a lot of siblings who are listening might be yearning for. With that being said, I want to thank you, Molly, for coming on to the show today and really opening up and sharing your personal experiences, some perspectives around your relationships with your brother, your parents, and how you're navigating all of that today.
[00:35:58] Dominique: Thanks for listening to this episode of For Love Recovery. If you enjoyed this episode or know somebody who might, please leave a comment and share it. You can also join our Facebook group, Siblings For Love of Recovery, if you're looking to have deeper conversations around your sibling's use of drugs or alcohol. And remember, where there is hope, there is healing.